This is a bit... er...

[mercyrobot]

Disjointed thoughts on guns, Doctors, Captains, things that glow, and that chick in tonight's ep.


So, this:




Got me thinking.

Actually, it mostly got me going WTF. No way is it just some coincidence for a vintage Webley to show up in the 61st (if the dates are to be believed) century.

First thought was that Cobb is actually Jack a lot-lot-lot-lot of years forward and back down the road. But eh, far-fetched and doesn't really work.

So my wacky brain decided it's more likely that it's the PTB drawing paralells between Jenny and Jack. In no particular order:

Both left behind dead, both back to life with glowy stuff. Oh, and when the Doctor's talking about the terraforming wossit, he says, "Not for killing, for bringing life."

Jenny was just a soldier, but became something better because of the Doctor. (Insert 'Jack' and 'con-man' in the appropriate places.) I.e. when she realises she had the choice not to shoot Cobb.
(Sidenote: the Doctor and Ianto both say 'there's always a choice.')

When they're in the tunnels, Jenny's about to shoot another sentry and the Doctor says, "Don't you dare." Remind you of Utopia?

And there was Jenny's whole 'snog the guard and take his gun' thing. Very Jack. Really, Jenny herself and her interactions with the Doctor remind me of Jack on the whole. Eh, okay, he likes her better.


So what's it all mean? I haven't the foggiest. It could mean that Jenny can't die. It could mean that Jenny will join Torchwood. It could mean the writers were entertaining themselves. It could mean Rusty's out of ideas.


Totally unrelated: I suck at Who backstory. When the Doctor says Jenny was too much like him, is he implying he doesn't have any regenerations left? I thought the limit was 13.

Possibly I'm reading way too much into this?

Comments

[laurab1.livejournal.com]

I thought it was Jack's gun!

Alternatively, the Who propmasters just took the Webley from the warehouse, because TW weren't filming, that day.

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Hah, could be!

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

I assumed too much like him = too much of his human DNA to regenerate.

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Oh, that makes loads more sense!

[asolitaryraven.livejournal.com]

Wow, I didn't even realize there were these many references, I only noticed a few... but whatever it means, I doubt it's only random...

When the Doctor says Jenny was too much like him, is he implying he doesn't have any regenerations left?
I was thinking that he said it because she stepped into the way to save him. Or maybe also because of the whole soldier similarities they kept mentioning throughout the episode...

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Ah, yeah, the soldier thing. Which we also get when Donna meets Martha. Maybe something to that too, but I'm too tired to work it out.

[monkeyqueentart.livejournal.com]

I thought that too! That's JACK's gun!
Oh a side note: Jack + Jenny + on an episode/show together?? = WOW.

[snglesrvngfrend.livejournal.com]

I THINK I WOULD DIE OF SEXUAL EXCITEMENT.

TMI? Was it a bit too much? But seriously. Jack=hot. Jenny=hot. Jack + Jenny = way too hot to deal with OMG. Just me? Y/Y?

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Not just you! Cap'n John did say they needed a blonde...

My head would explode. Or Ianto's would.

[monkeyqueentart.livejournal.com]

Hmm...well, Ianto was amused by the thought of an orgy. ;)

[monkeyqueentart.livejournal.com]

Not you. Seriously, those two have GOT to get in an episode together. Kick ass, I say!
(Oh yeah, and a bit of Ianto doing his thang beside them would make me 'splode too.)

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

the limit is usually 13...Time Lords can find several ways around it - the Master did, when he became the Master (Ainley years) & then became the Master (Jacobi and Simms)

13 might be an average, a norm, rather than an absolute.

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Aha. That's my 'rubbish at classic Who' showing. :P

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

I'm no better.
I only found out about the dodge around it, from two places:
* NuWho's "sound of drums" finale - the Master says he was brought back to fight the Daleks.
* Classic Who's 4th Doctor trilogy where he became the 5th Doctor - "Keeper of Traken" & "Logopolis" & "Castrovala". the Master didn't regenerate, so much as he...best word would be overlapped someone else (also played by Anthony Ainley).
Companions - Adric, Nyssa, Tegan Jovanka.

I hope this helps.

have nice days & be well.

[amythest-n-ice.livejournal.com]

I think the glowy stuff that brought her back was supposed to be inhaled terraforming gasses. Does that mean she's going to turn into a tree woman and accidentally make eyes at her own 'father' without realizing it?

[riotangelstar.livejournal.com]

The glowy stuff is like the glowy stuff that the Doctor exhales after he regenerated I thought....

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Now, see, that's the question, isn't it! I feel like it was maybe ambiguous on purpose. Or both! Who knows, maybe the sci-fi miracle-gro is made of TARDIS-heart stuffs.

Though the idea of tree!Jenny gives me the giggles.

[amythest-n-ice.livejournal.com]

I thought it was the same color as the terraforming 'cloud'. When the Doctor regenerated, it was more golden, more like he was being burned at a cellular level. Not to mention that in old Who, the regenerations were less flashy (*coughbudgetcough*)

[cpt-teaboy.livejournal.com]

rusty is always out of ideas xD He's reused the cat people loads of times and when in doubt... get the daleks or the cybermen out.

I was like OMGZ HE STOLEZ IT FROM JACK! Then i was thinking the same as you.
I think the whole shes too much like me bit was like she was too kind for her own good, willing to put herself on the line for someone else.

Also the regeneration limits keep changing as anyone who watched the old who will know so they might decide to change it...AGAIN. And the two hearts thing right. The only reason the doctor has two hearts is because he got shot in an old who and they couldn't think of a way out, so they gave him another heart, problem solved, So technically Jenny should never have died in the first place if that makes any sense :]

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I never considered someone stealing the gun from Jack. Maybe one of the original settlers had it. You know, those ancestors that came last week. :P

I bow to your superior canon skills! What I've seen of old Who is spotty and out-of-order. Really should fix that.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

the 1st Doctor had only one heart - he collapsed on the TARDIS floor, and when Ian and Barbara went to check on him, Ian said he could feel a heartbeat.

so maybe the second heart takes a regeneration or two to finish growing. :D

[sophonix.livejournal.com]

O.o' That episode really got me WTF too...

Besides the whole Jenny=Jack and the gun thing... Did you notice the Doctor being called "wrong"? I had my revenge there...

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

I didn't even think of that! Sort of a Jack reference too, if a bit more oblique since Donna doesn't know that bit of history. But yeah, I kinda went, "Ha! See how you like it!"

[eponine-b.livejournal.com]

Did she actually mean it like that - unnatural as opposed to incorrect? I just took it to mean that she was saying he was wrong about the parental/familial side of him dying along with his family. I mean the whole "something I've never told you before" could just come from the fact that while she's called him out on some of his decisions and disagreed with him, from what I can remember, she's never actually flat out told him he was wrong about anything before.

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

No, I honestly don't think Donna meant it that way, and maybe there's really nothing to the fact that she phrased it like that. It still sort of made me go 'huh' though, just because it strikes that chord (for me at least) whether it's intentional or not.

(And sidenote, I totally thought she was about to confess to having a kid somewhere.)

[macadamanaity.livejournal.com]

Another parallel is the obvious one that is, well, the part where the Doctor leaves her for dead under somewhat ambiguous circumstances and she comes back to life.

Once I realized they were going there I had to be like, really? Again? At this rate the Doctor is going to have to sit with all the corpses he leaves behind for a few weeks just to make sure they're really and truly dead.

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Yep, I mentioned that, though far less articulately. ;)

...and now I'm just picturing the Doctor sitting around poking corpses in the face and asking them if they're getting better.

[teiira.livejournal.com]

I think Time Lords only get 12 regenerations which would give 13 incarnations of the doctor.

[ru-salki99.livejournal.com]

when he said she was too much like him I think he meant personality wise.

I didn't really see the jenny/jack comparison when watchign it but I was thinking that she would end up in Torchwood. My friend however, thinks that RTD is going to do another spin off. Don't really know if that would work tbh.

[electrictoes.livejournal.com]

I'm just interested to see Jack's response to Jenny if she reappears in the finale (which I'm guessing is quite likely)

[gogogrenade.livejournal.com]

I could definitely see Jack flirting with Jenny and the Doctor getting more annoyed than usual because shes his Daughter, not a companion or some other random life form.

[applegrass-wolf.livejournal.com]

Ha, yes! XD I would LOL way too much at that.

:D

[mrhapptits.livejournal.com]

I was thinking Donna calls both The Doctor and Jenny 'impossible' a fair few times in this episode almost like how The Doctor called Jack's predicament in Utopia.

I did get the Weberley but I thought it was just because its an old gun he's an old man they were making out the war had been going on centuries rather then days before the big twist happened.

[inzey.livejournal.com]

When I saw the gun I was like "What the..? That gun looks a lot like the one Tallulah has in Daleks in Manhattan".
I don't have any pics, but I seem to recall the prop gun looking like that and having that metal ring thingy under it.

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Pretty similar! I can't get a good shot of the grip, but it looks like it might have the Webley stamp on it too. Ahh, repeat appearances of props. Sadly, I guess that makes it less likely that the gun means anything.

[want-of-faith.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of the parallels between Ianto and Lisa, and the characters Adeola (Martha's 'cousin', who was also played by Freema Aygeman) and Gareth in the Dr Who episode 'An Army of Ghosts' (Gareth was the one that first came under the control of the cybermen after being corrupted by his blue-tooth thingy, and he lured his girlfriend Adeola off to become their next victim). They all worked for Torchwood One, both pairs were dating, Lisa and Adeola were of African descent, Ianto and Gareth look very alike, they all contributed to nearly getting the entire human race converted into cybermen, and their relationships ended rather tragically (Adeola and Gareth through death by Doctor (though I s'pose they couldn't've had much of a relationship as the zombie-slaves of cyberbeings, anyway) and Lisa and Ianto through death by Torchwood).

I think what happens is that RTD gets a lot of different ideas about the way a story should go, and rather than just use one and discard all the rest, he'll sometimes use them in other episodes.

And, this is completely off-topic, but is anyone else annoyed that they killed off Jenny? It seems like every time the Doctor even begins to get along with anyone else, they die. Like Ross from UNIT, and that PETO guy (People for the Ethical Treatment of Ood... don't know if that's actually what they were called, I just like the sound of it PETO...)

Good pick up with the webley - at the time it didn't even seem odd to me that the guy had an old-fashioned earth gun. Maybe it's like BadWolf from series one, and this is leading up to something ...

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

RTD gets a lot of different ideas about the way a story should go, and rather than just use one and discard all the rest, he'll sometimes use them in other episodes.

Totally. I didn't catch the Ianto-Gareth/Lisa-Adeola thing quite as well as you did but it makes loads of sense now that you put it out there.

It seems like every time the Doctor even begins to get along with anyone else, they die.

YES. I'm STILL cranky about Ross. But hey, if Jenny got up after the Doctor had left, maybe Ross managed it too. I just hope it's not foreshadowing Death By Doctor for Donna.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

The "Don't you dare" moment definitely raised my Jack-loving bat-ears.